September 29, 2008

Do these Dutch ladies know everything? (final cut)

Dear friends, this is the final cut of the very popular blog article of your beloved chess site. I have edited all of your comments, made sure that all references to real persons are removed, and I am proud to anounce the sequel! As soon as investigations come to an end, get prepared to welcome the new thriller story with the dramatic title: "The BanzayFish scandal" or "ZorMaster-gate" :-)

I have just discovered that two handles, supposed to belong to two ladies from the Netherlands, two respectable strong women chess players, have crossed the line of politeness and decided to play the role of cheater police investigators. These handles have finally decided to drop out of (together with a team of other 6 players from the Netherlands) they have not logged in since August 28th, but they have left behind them a lot of written comments which are public available for anybody. The big questions are these: Who cheated whom? and Who has the right to file a good case in normal courts?
(The old entry here also mentioned FIDE. Well, this is probably out of question.)

As you know the comments we write to each other can be still accessed through the history link of a game page. So you should be very careful and write politely to your opponent. These Dutch handles showed the bad habit of accusing their opponents of cheating and connected this accusation with the fact that their opponent has no FIDE Elo or is not a registered chess player.
There are 11 examples of sharp language in the latest 80 games of ZorMaster and 13 examples for BanzayFish.

Here is a brief collection. Sit back and enjoy or click the links to get the full image. Let's start with BanzayFish who has a problem with players that don't show up OTB.
Example 1: no chess history? Just engine play? Pity
Example 2: the whole dialogue...
B: strong engine use german
Op: Is not true. I could also say. Logical sequence
B: You cannot because i am a well know chess player and who the hell are you? Pastye gameload from you gives 60 games not lost, lol.Cheating feels better?
Example 3: another chess engine user. U sux in real chess, shame on you arse
Example 4: hear hear, mr nobody in chess, get a life kiddy.
Example 5: sitting every sunday in front of al the other church people? And in the usual days cheating all who stands in your way, jerk. Tipical yankee doodle jerk who loves to manupulate people, you must be bush twin bro.

The other handle supposed to belong to a younger lady uses even sharper language.
Example 6: and your sore attitude bigger then Brasilian maintown.And your bloody engines are just garbage as u are
Example 7: rotten cheater. Lets hope you get an accident
Example 8: you f bastrerd a win by a wrong interface,my queen was on anther place, yoy ARSE HOLE.rotten cheater.go to hell where u belon.
Indeed this handle had a problem with her opponent being impolite:
Example 9: This poor fellow never replied to the initial "gl & gg". By her second move she replied "sure, being polite never heard off i suppose."
Example 10: Bloody cheap engine player.You suck at real chess and want to be a GM in cheating? I checked 80 games and none lost yet. Time to inform the web owner.Idiot.

Yes ZorMaster and BanzayFish as well. It is time to inform all members of this site and the rest of the world about your bad sportsmanship.

But ZorMaster and BanzayFish, please, let's make this clear:

I don't hope that you get an accident.

I only wish that you understand that Internet is a place that some rodents pretend they are lions and it is possible that there are rodents who are real lions and for some private reasons do not like to be socially involved in OTB chess. All of them hide behind handles and they should be equally respectable, they don't deserve in any case the language you used against them.

Please come back to the site both of you and make a public statement, an apology for your sharp language.

This last part of the article seems very silly to me right now. The comments that all of you have posted are divided. Some of you believe that cheating is more important, some of you believe that more important is using sharp language. I am going to examine all of your comments. But this is not the point right now. Here, in this case it seems that we've all been cheated guys.

From now on this article is closed for comments. Sorry, for cutting the dialogue in the middle of the heat. But don't worry. Soon enough a new blog entry is going to present details of "The BanzayFish scandal" or "ZorMaster-gate".

Posted by Michalis Kaloumenos at September 29, 2008 10:40 PM

Hi Michalis,

I am very shocked at your methods...
You judge without any investigations ; you put writtent texts taken out of their content ; you don't give any sources...
And you mention real names without the consent of the persons mentioned.
What you are doing is not correct at all.
One might criticize the language used by those Dutch high level players.
But the very ground of the problem is justified.
BanzayFish and ZorMaster are entitled to complain about cheating on Playchess.
In particular they were very angry with Teflon who is an obvious cheater.

I subscribe to their complaint.

Posted by: gambitfan at September 28, 2008 01:14 PM

Thought I'd add a comment since I too was accused of using a chess engine by ZorMaster, quite a while ago on a different site (
She'd beaten me easily in one game and we were having a rematch (and chatting very pleasantly).
Then I logged on to find that she'd resigned. I enquired why, and she said she didn't want to play against a computer! Very hurtful. On what grounds she decided I was using a computer I don't know. It certainly wasn't that I'd won endless games in a row - I'm not a bad player, but I had a very respectable history of losses under my belt! And I felt she already had the upper hand in the game in question too - my moves seemed pretty well forced to me!
Anyway, she's left that site too now, doubtless leaving a trail of bad feeling behind her, and I see she's playing on now - I wonder how long for?
The sooner her paranoia makes her run out of sites to play the better as far as I'm concerned.

Simon Phillips.

Posted by: Simon Phillips at September 28, 2008 01:48 PM

I have played Zormaster a number of times on another site (Stan'sNetChess) and assuming she is the same person, which I believe she is, found her to be a wonderful opponent except for a few time forfeits. We had some disagreements on politics because she was all too willing to assume certain things about Americans with regard to what American politicians might do in foreign policy. A lack of understanding regarding American government and how or how it does not work was probably the problem. I concluded she was just youung and opinionated. Not a problem. Time usually improves a young adult's judgement. My point? She is young. Let her grow. I vote for no sanctions.

Stan Evans

Posted by: Stan Evans at September 28, 2008 03:03 PM

The two dutch ladies r both abuser; more they r a little too much under stress in order to maintain a level (is it reasonable? may be parents and teachers have to pay attention to young players) I am not obliged to know who they r , I can think that if they win they r using a computer.....if sb uses a computer I think he has a problem in his head: what's the point in cheating? Sure, when u play on the net there is a risk that sb is using a computer but that is his mental health problem!
On other side the two young ladies have no right "to cross line of politeness", and here there is no doubt, everything is probed, so Gambitfan:vous n'avez pas à être "schocked" par Michalis, si Teflon est un tricheur (là vous êtes aussi hatif que Michalis...même si vous avez peut être raison)n'a rien à voir, ce serait bien qu'il voit d'urgence un psy. Les dérapages de language de ces deux demoiselles sont bien le point en question et me parait évident et donc prouvé même en déhors de tout contexte
well, let's be patient
best regards

Posted by: Bruno GATTA at September 28, 2008 03:05 PM

Hi Simon,

I was laughing at the cheating problem as long as I was in B, A, E HCL classes. It took me 3 years to reach the HCL M class and I discovered there the problem of cheating.
In particular, there is a blatant cheater there : Teflon.
Everybody knows that he is a cheater and he never denied it !
He laughs at it in fact...
He was the main cause in fact of the bad words used by ZorMaster and BanzayFish...
ZorMaster and BanzayFish were right to complain about cheating on Playchess.
There are cheaters ; it is no paranoïa...
They might have been wrong in suspecting "innocents", but the root of this evil is real, no phantasy...
Let's ban Teflon from HCL Tournaments and BanzayFish and ZorMaster will come back !

Posted by: gambitfan at September 28, 2008 03:09 PM

Gambitfan. I have to disagree with you. This post does give its source, and it repeats information and names that are already public, if you search the games of the mentioned players. And you miss the point. The rudeness of these two is inexcusable regardless of whether their complaint has a basis. The fact it is spread indiscriminately makes it much worse. If banning Teflon would cause these two to return, that is the best argument I have heard for keeping him here.

Posted by: Shurlok at September 28, 2008 04:24 PM

Hi Michalis,

I studied carefully your post...
You made me discover another obvious cheater on Playchess !
This obvious cheater (I will call him Teflon2, next to the Black List) was stupid enough to recommend to BanzayFish to learn how to play chess !

Hilarious !

Posted by: gambitfan at September 28, 2008 04:48 PM

> and make a public statement, an apology for your sharp language.
I can only see a few people who need to make an apology.
First of all the cheaters we have here at playchess, and there are way to many of them.
And secondly you for writing this posting. If you have problems with other players or their activities you can write to Thomas. There is no reason for such a public attack.

Posted by: Paul at September 28, 2008 07:47 PM

Well I guess those ladies are cheating also - in bed!?

Posted by: zervikalprolaps at September 28, 2008 08:10 PM

Sombedy knows the masked avenger's name? Is it a computer? No, really? Hal who comes back from the space odissey?

Posted by: onzedu at September 28, 2008 08:22 PM

I think that most of you miss the point that those dutch (ladies ????) have an ego problem.
they found theirselves so good that they become angry when they can make the difference on the board.well done Michalis

Posted by: chessdisaster at September 28, 2008 08:30 PM

Well done Michalis! I experienced myself how it is to be accussed. See, I play chess at 7 and starting to play for a chess club when I was 12 (now 38). I have been champion of my hometown 7 times. My interest in playing on is to enhance my skills. I want to let you know that BanzayFish even did try to damage my reputation by posting accussing messages on my chessclub's website!

Posted by: reinbo at September 28, 2008 08:46 PM

Is it right that a website leader comes on another site to put discord? website: gambitfan!!!!

Posted by: onzedu at September 28, 2008 08:53 PM

I would like to add to some of the comments on the public scope of the "attack" on the two chessplayers. First off, if they are making these comments online, it can only be assumed that someone would see them, so making them more known is not too much of a problem in my book. They were already public to begin with. The other part is that the website policy talks about cheaters being a possible problem, and gives advice about how to deal with them. To my knowledge that advice did not involve insults and wishes for death or accident.

That being said, I think a private confrentation before the public comments (in the case that this was not done) might have been more effective. After that though, I see no reason not to let the venom of the two show. I think it's best for people over time if their errors can be shown, as long as forgiveness is the modus operandi following repentance.

Posted by: Zak Smith at September 29, 2008 06:09 AM

we've two problems here, cheating and wild accusations from pepole who were strong OTB and therefore have a big ego.
I want to ad a point of view from the downside.
I'm that strong OTB "in my small environment", that I have no opponents, who dare OTB with me. it's a pity! This is obvious strange, because anybody here can see that I'm more or less an average or even bad CC player. But at first, I had to deal with the fact that here, I'm scoring less. One of the obvious thought in my frustration was, there 50% cheaters here (in cass B), but how do I find out ? Well, learning takes its time.
Even I was accused for cheating sometimes. Since I decided to ignore it, I feel better, cause it's ridiculous (look at my games list), I know better and does anybody else care? Cheating accusations and insulations are always in common, there's no other reason for sharp statements at Ignoring the content also means discarding the wrapping language. My point is simple: Don't complex your live with other people problems. It's not worth any sentence you wrote back.
Anyway these ladies are gone and you have no longer a chance to met them here. If you're really that rodent with lion teeths, you may have a good conversation at random with them OTB in a café ?

Posted by: Nulnulnix at September 29, 2008 09:30 AM

Let those who are not happy and can not find happiness drop out
and the rest move on.

Posted by: Richard Bo Davikson at September 29, 2008 03:37 PM

It's imposible to know here for 100% does somebody cheating or no. But 100% these ladies and another one "aadje" spoiling the fun and spirit of the game and their opponent mood by these "sharp" accusations. Look, in 90% of the losing games they begin to say bullshits about their opponent, this is the most ridiculous thing and it hould be judged. I never faced with such accusations myself (i have just 1500 here), but I know personally a player, who was accused by aadje and zormaster without any reason...

Posted by: kublya at September 29, 2008 03:40 PM

BanzayFish is Maths professor at Eindhoven University ; she is also a Woman International Master in chess. She is an honourable and respectable person.
ZorMaster is maths student at Eindhoven University and knows BanzayFish. She is a very promising chess player (2200). She is very well educated.
aadje is also a scientist at Eindhoven, and a good chess player.
Those people deserved minimum respect on Playchess.
ZorMaster, who is a very young girl, received from a Playchess member a pornographic picture.
They were expelled from HCL-M class by dirty cheaters, who may be at the same time sex maniacs. One of them advised Pauline "to learn how to play chess" !!
All this obscene and disrespectful behaviour made them very angry and I can understand them. They reacted first expressing in frank words their anger ; in the end they left Playchess.
A chess platform should be very happy to welcome top chess players with all respect due to their rank.
Is it a good idea to send a young almost minderjähriges girl the picture of a male penis ?
I do not think so...
Isn't it insulting to try to beat them with the help of a computer ?
Who is Teflon ? A nobody in chess world... Some months ago he was among the weakest players on Playchess (900 !!!) and now he boasts about having PCR 2300 !!
Teflon and his cheating comrades are the only cause of this whole evil...
Everybody clearly knows that Teflon is a damned cheater, and he never denied it himself ! He even laughs at it !
BanzayFish and ZorMaster are the victims and Teflon is the culprit : pretty obvious !
Detecting computer use is very easy contrary to what has been said...
Let us ban this pack of cheaters from the M class and send them to tha ACL and CCL class !

Posted by: gambitfan at September 29, 2008 04:11 PM

"aadje is also a scientist at Eindhoven, and a good chess player"
Nobody says that Aadje or Zormaster isn't good players, the statement is, that their behaviour in chat is awful.
I'm also young (28), I'm also scientist (PhD in biology), but I've never written:
"W (aadje): as always, u using chess engines, sore baby
B: Thank you for high opinion about my playing :). Why are you not resigning yet, if think so?
W: U can kiss my ****. Cheater
B: Shame on you, old man! Now you are in my black list
W: your own rot cheater"

"engine user.your game stinks arse"

"same ip adres as matu, sore germans"

"'brother 1 vs bro 2, bro 3 vs bro 4,hilarious, hehehehe and all have a fake usaf rating in the 2400, LOL...ROFL"

"all cheating by engine play. sore"

"your time will come one day mr engine user. Be happy and think you are a new born gm,"

And there many others. May be 1 or 2 of them are cheater, but why the rest of them have to listen this trash?

Posted by: kublya at September 29, 2008 05:23 PM

gambitfan: there is no exuse for those two.
not that they are well educated or good chessplayers.It's there behaviour.
don't try to speake that good.

Posted by: chessdisaster at September 29, 2008 05:38 PM

I don't support your position in "Dutch case". They left - thanks God. I donn"t want to play with all of them in the same tournaments. I'm not impressed their game, I'm almost sure that all of them are the only one player-cheater. Thomas stated, that there is only one IP address for 8!!! players -that is enough for me. Even if all of them are the members of the same University, I can't believe that they analyze their games only in the computer room of University and send their move from only one computer in the lab!
And no one move has been made from the home computer!
I am agree with Mr. Cinephos to send all the information to FIDE. Their behavior is incredible!
By the way, if you mean Mr. Maik_42 by "Fritzer" -he is much stronger player, than all Dutch together plus he is a gentleman.
Sincerely, RussDude

Posted by: RussDude at September 29, 2008 05:46 PM

Hi RussDude !

Concerning maik_42
This "gentleman" with a very PCR (2218) criticized my annotations...
I annotated a game of mine which resembled a ame played by the famous Adolf Anderssen (contemporaneous of Morphy, player of the Immortal and of the Evergreen)...
maik_42 scorched his name, calling him Anderson and said a lot of irrelevant bullshit...
Plus I read somme nnotations by maik_42...
maik_42 is completely unable to make an analysis by himself ...
He always repeats Fritz told me that...
For instance, maik_42 has never heard of the following variant (1 e4 e5 2 f4 ef 3 Bc4...), the Bishop's King's Gambit
The famous Immortal by Anderssen is precisely a Bishop's King's Gambit !
You have to be a complete chess illiterrate to ignore this !!
maik_42 just says : "Fritz9 tells me it is correct !..."
Pure chess illiteracy !!
I have very strong doubts regarding the ability of somebody who has never heard of Adolf Anderssen (the Immortal!!), never heard of the Bishop's King's Gambit (the Immortal!!), is always referring to his beloved friend Fritz9 in his annotations, unable to make an analysis of his own, to reach a gigantic PCR 2300 without the help of his computer !...
Can you reach a PCR 2200 honestly being a complete chess illiterate ?
I do not think so.

Posted by: gambitfan at September 29, 2008 06:33 PM

gambitfun, have you ever heard about Mir Sultan Khan? He didn`t know anything about theory, but was a brittish champion an bit Capablanca ones. This is a top layer, and, I suppose, there are much more examples at the lower layers as M-class of Nobody knows everything. And, AGAIN, why are you begin to judge somebody? Do you have a REAL evidence? The point here is INADMISSIBLE bihaviour of several players, why it`s not clear for you, not cheating...

Posted by: kublya at September 29, 2008 07:07 PM

Did Mir Sultan Khan sleep with Fritz9 ??

Posted by: gambitfan at September 29, 2008 07:42 PM

I played 3 times with Maik_42 and I think he is very strong player who reached his PCR honestly. He analyzes his games (after the end of the game!)
using "Fritz"-but this is legal. And I don't care about his knowledge of Bishop's King's Gambit, this is not the main chessopening today.
Best regards.

Posted by: RussDude at September 29, 2008 09:34 PM

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