"Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"

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"Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by cinephos Click to email on 05-May-08, 11:39 AM (GMT)
Recently John Findley posted a message full of complain, anger and this bitter feeling of injustice. It is reproduced here. I have censored the names mentioned in his comment.

------
Some players here have developed a habit of accusing every opponent who beats them of using an engine. News flash: sometimes you just get outplayed. Don't be a poor sport. Most engines in fairly equal positions will run through several "best move" choices as their depth search increases. Most fairly equal positions will have several moves that are close to equal in evaluation. It is probably not uncommon for a human player of decent ability to go very deep into a game, and possibly through an entire game, without varying from these "playable choices." So, don't be so quick to accuse your opponents of cheating. It makes you look like a poor sport. And even if some of them do, so what? It's a game. You can learn from your mistakes just as easily regardless of whether a silicon or carbon based brain beat you. The cheater harms himself more than his opponent, because by not making his "own" moves he doesn't learn his own weaknesses and cannot improve. Perhaps the motive is just to annoy the opponent so he will be distracted and make a mistake, or will quit because he is angry (as L**** has just done in several games). Another newsflash, in 1985 L**** finished an OTB tournament against an average rated opponent of over 2050, with a 4-1 score. He is better now than he was then. His playing style is like a bulldog, he isn't flashy, but he takes little advantages until they accumulate. My style is more tactical and flashy, but I also lose more often. Playing him is annoying. Not as annoying as T****, who kicks my butt regularly, but still his style is not exciting. Petrosian style. Anyhow, Z**** has no clue what L****'s ability is, and needs to tone down the accusations. Just saying . . .
Posted by: John Findley at May 4, 2008 05:11 PM
-------

Please, share with us your point of view share your point of view regarding cheating, cheating accusations, psychology of the chess player and the temptation of a chess engine which is just a click away. It is also important to determine the moment that a player feels cheated, which kind of moves look so unrealistic and why.

We want your comments regarding both sides: The accused and the accuser. Please, post your comments but avoid mentioning any real name or alias of Playchess.de members. We don’t want to discriminate people here. We want to evaluate the “cheating” threat and its consequences. This is very important.

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 Table of contents

cheating, BrunKC, 05-May-08, (1)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, LieNK, 06-May-08, (2)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, spidey, 06-May-08, (3)
No anger, no bitterness, Shurlok, 06-May-08, (4)
RE:" Did you ever feel cheated? " , BOSTER, 07-May-08, (5)
In my opinion a boring and unhealthy subject..., gambitfan, 07-May-08, (6)
RE: In my opinion a boring and unhealthy subject..., gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (16)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, LarFin, 08-May-08, (7)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, PLAYCHESS1963, 08-May-08, (8)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, onzedu, 31-May-08, (9)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, Tarrega, 31-May-08, (10)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, WStanEvans, 06-Jun-08, (11)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, onzedu, 07-Jun-08, (12)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, Charmaine, 11-Jun-08, (13)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, Charmaine, 12-Jun-08, (14)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, Pillsbury, 29-Jun-08, (15)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (17)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, onzedu, 10-Sep-08, (18)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (22)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 25-Sep-08, (27)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (19)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, onzedu, 10-Sep-08, (20)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (21)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, onzedu, 10-Sep-08, (23)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (24)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, maik42_, 10-Sep-08, (25)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, gambitfan, 10-Sep-08, (26)
RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?, maik42_, 28-Sep-08, (28)

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Messages in this topic

1. "cheating"
Posted by BrunKC Click to email on 05-May-08, 01:09 PM (GMT)
I think that if somebody is cheating, it is his/her problem: in a tournament, I was/am almost sure that player XYZ was suddenly using a computer: it is not good but if he is happy ....I don't understand his/her satisfaction but it is not my problem. Or I win, or I lose with a stronger human player, or I lose with a computer stronger than me. And so in this case it is not my opponent who is winning.
Being accused is very sad: once I was playing a 3 minutes blitz on Chessnet and I forgot open in the same time the playchess link where I had a game "turtle": the guy saw an orange light and he was convinced I was cheating: it was obviously not true and certainly I felt humiliated end that's why I don't say anything against other players: it can be a mistake
regards
BrunKC
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2. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by LieNK on 06-May-08, 00:17 AM (GMT)
I have played chess on PlayChess since 1999, haven't found anyone cheating yet. All the anonymous player whom I have played with are honourable people who just love to play chess.
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3. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by spidey Click to email on 06-May-08, 03:49 AM (GMT)
I'vce been accused of cheating by one opponent on two occasions. It made me feel denigrated because I'm an ethical person and I try to play as well as I can within my natural abilities. So when someone accuses me of not following my own ethics I feel cheated. I think this situation is rather unfortunate.
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4. "No anger, no bitterness"
Posted by Shurlok Click to email on 06-May-08, 01:26 PM (GMT)
Just for the record. I was neither angry nor bitter. It wasn't me that was wrongfully accused. Injustice did enter the picture though.
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5. "RE:" Did you ever feel cheated? " "
Posted by BOSTER Click to email on 07-May-08, 04:29 PM (GMT)
>Recently John Findley posted a message
>full of complain, anger and
>this bitter feeling of injustice.
>It is reproduced here. I
>have censored the names mentioned in his comment
>
>
Even reading your message I feel cheated.
Why should I read your "censored" message?
Where is the original message which sent John Findley, and who is John Findley?
His message was not published . How did you get his message?
Do you have the right to change original message? In my opinion this is called dirty games.


>We

Who is WE?
>want your comments regarding both
>sides: The accused and the
>accuser. Please, post your comments
>but avoid mentioning any real
>name or alias of Playchess.de
>members. We don’t want to
>discriminate people here. We want
>to evaluate the “cheating” threat
>and its consequences. This is
>very important.


Talking about cheating in PlayChess.de without real names is talking about nothing.
BOSTER.

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6. "In my opinion a boring and unhealthy subject..."
Posted by gambitfan Click to email on 07-May-08, 11:07 PM (GMT)
I do not care about cheating...

I do not cheat and had no problems with anybody accusing me of cheating...

I annotated several games of mine, which proves that I understand what I play...

You should not stir up paranoä wuth such subjects !

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16. "RE: In my opinion a boring and unhealthy subject..."
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 11:24 AM (GMT)
>I do not care about cheating...
>
>
>I do not cheat and had
>no problems with anybody accusing
>me of cheating...
>
>I annotated several games of mine,
>which proves that I understand
>what I play...
>
>You should not stir up paranoä
>with such subjects !

I am answering my own post with some months delay...

When I wrote that post some months ago I had not been confronted with cheating.

I am newly promoted to the HCL M class and now the problem is different.

It is said in the regulations that :

COMPUTERS ARE FORBIDDEN

There are obvious cheaters in the M class.

The Teflon case is particularly amazing.

The reputation of Playchess.de is at stake.

It is quite easy to demonstrate that Teflon is a cheater...

Anyway, when frankly asked he does not deny it !

So many games at such a high level and very irregular games show that there is somlething strange with Teflon.

One player wrongly suspected of being a cheater can easily prove that he does not cheat.. annotating one of his games for exampple...

Would Teflon be able to annotate one of his games ?

A cleare message should be given by Thomas to enforce the regulations.

Cheaters should be banned from HCL Tournaments.


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7. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by LarFin Click to email on 08-May-08, 02:19 AM (GMT)
I think, after much reflection, that (for me) it boils down to enjoyment, or lack thereof. I have taken this whole thing too seriously. I have spent as much as 7 hours, maybe more, on a weekday, and twice that on a Saturday or Sunday, studying positions and making moves here at playchess. A bit much, don't you think? I have resolved to make the following changes in my habits.

1. Spend less time here, my family would like to see more of me.
2. Use ACL for serious chess play and study.
3. Use HCL like casual games with friends. I apologize in advance if that seems like I won't be giving it the attention you might think it deserves.
4. I'm not going to worry about where my opponents get their moves.
5. I'm not going to care whether I win or lose. I am only going to care that I have given it my best (ACL) or had fun (HCL & ACL).

Consider how this old adage might apply to the topic at hand. "It is easy to find the town thief, he lives in the house that has the most locks on the windows and doors."

Life is too important to be taken this seriously. I encourage everyone to seek enjoyment and relaxation in your lives. If I seem to be getting too serious about something in the future, chide me back to my senses, please!

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8. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by PLAYCHESS1963 on 08-May-08, 04:12 AM (GMT)
There were moments when I was wondering whether some of my oponents started using computer asistance. Reason for it was when I noticed big change in quality of their play. I couldn't explain it to myself any other way but that they are using computer's help. I, personally, don't understand at all what is the pleasure of playing chess if computer does all the thinking for you. Especially here, where we play for fun.
PLAYCHESS1963
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9. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by onzedu Click to email on 31-May-08, 08:25 AM (GMT)
I apologize for y English.
About cheating I want to explain a very sensitive area: My opponent accuses me to cheat with insults.
Everybody can suspect everybody: No one is perfect.
What I can't accept is: This is a pretext to insults. After insults there is no good way because the real matter changed. It's a way to shout his hate against the other ; it's a pretext. I confirmed this when I had read other mails from my opponents to others players.
I'm not in Play chess for this .
Now, I'm truly searching a correct answer:
Asking the moderator?
To resign and never see mor my opponent? What about the future tournament if I meet him?
To take no notice: He is okay!
To counterattack saying him he is an usual provocative player?

No one seems good

I'm waiting your opinions.

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10. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by Tarrega on 31-May-08, 12:57 PM (GMT)
Mr. onzedu,

I took a look at the game you alluded to in your post. I play that same variation of the e5 English and my books sometimes take me to move 20 or so. It's a very easy little system to learn and it certainly doesn't require a computer to think up any of those first 10 or so moves. Which just means that the person you are playing probably just likes intimidating people. My suggestion is just play the game and ignore him. If his anger at your non-response causes him to throw out even more vindictive statements, merely copy them to an E-Mail and forward them to Thomas (the webmaster). Do not give to Thomas thru this posting forum. Send an E-Mail and I gaurantee he will take care of the problem.
Regards, Tarrega

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11. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by WStanEvans on 06-Jun-08, 08:06 PM (GMT)
>I apologize for y English.
>About cheating I want to explain
>a very sensitive area: My
>opponent accuses me to cheat
>with insults.
>Everybody can suspect everybody: No one
>is perfect.
>What I can't accept is: This
>is a pretext to insults.
>After insults there is no
>good way because the real
>matter changed. It's a way
>to shout his hate against
>the other ; it's a
>pretext. I confirmed this when
>I had read other mails
>from my opponents to others
>players.
>I'm not in Play chess for
>this .
>Now, I'm truly searching a correct
>answer:
> Asking the moderator?
>
> To resign and
>never see mor my opponent?
>What about the future tournament
>if I meet him?
> To take no
>notice: He is okay!
> To counterattack saying
>him he is an usual
>provocative player?
>
> No one seems good
>
>I'm waiting your opinions.
>


Greetings!
We recently played and you beat me twice if I recall. At no point did I feel you were cheating. You played better chess! In fact, in the post mortem you pointed at a very good move and plan that would have improved my prospects. It was a move a human could easily see. Whomever you are accused by probably can not accept that. This is something about which you can do nothing. Play your chess and ignore them. More than likely they will accuse someone else soon and Thomas will note a trend.

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12. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by onzedu on 07-Jun-08, 09:21 AM (GMT)
Dear Mr Tarrega,
Dear Mr WStanEvans,

I thank you for your mails: It's a real comfort.

So, i want to explain you what and how i decided: I play just for my pleasure and i think a game is a speech (an exchange, a relation). When the worst comes (Insults more than supicion: the cheat lies to himself etc;;) why not go without?
Well, i decided to leave the match an no accept pain in each ply in a game become without sense.
My opponent wins one point: is it a problem?

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13. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by Charmaine on 11-Jun-08, 05:34 AM (GMT)
Well, the same thing happened to me in a game against zmaster (a Woman IM or FM player). She offered me a draw and when I refused the accusations started, which was pitty because I looked forward playing against strong player like here. I noticed that she behaves like that many times. I complained to Thomas and wanted him to either judge the game lost to me (if he thought I was cheating) or to here for deliberly disturbing me. Well when she offered me draw again few moves later I decided to take it as I had lost all interest playing the game anymore. I think that players that behave like that should be punished in some way as it gives a bad reputation to this site. I had already bought a 3 months subscription to this site but after this incident I have lost lot of the interest I had before and don´t know if I will continue.
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14. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by Charmaine on 12-Jun-08, 01:48 AM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON 12-Jun-08 AT 01:50 AM (GMT)

One thing I noted about these incidents is that both of the players are Dutch. So I decided to do a little research and checked all Dutch players among the top 200 rated. The result is that 8 Dutch players are like that, accusing people left and right of cheating. These players are aadje, ZorMaster, anne t, AJT, BanzayFish, zmaster, AMT and TealBeatle. It is interesting that of these 8 players, 6 are females and it is also interesting that they all joined playchess.de in 2001 and six of them in October 2001. It would be interesting to hear from any of them (or maybe they are all the same person?) what methods they use to judge someone is a cheater or is this just a tactic to disturb the opponent? It would also be interesting to hear if Thomas is approval of this? In my opinion this should not be tolerated and should be punished in some way, maybe by denying them to write any messages at all. As I said in my earlier message this gives the site a bad reputation and I am sure that this have caused Thomas some subscribers in the past.

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15. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by Pillsbury on 29-Jun-08, 09:23 AM (GMT)
I have the same opion as Charmaine has it !
I was accused by three dutch players who are not able to accept, when they are loosing a game. Zormaster attacked me by unfair means also aadje anc tealbeatle. Believe me, their play is not as good as their provocating attacks which affront a lot of players on playchess. There was one response to zormaster from US player John Findley (shurlock)like that: "You really are an idiot. How can you level such an accusation, if you haven't run the moves through the computer yourself? Maybe you are the cheater here, A thief is always the most suspicious of others." I have nothing to add !!
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17. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 12:28 PM (GMT)
>Zormaster attacked
>me by unfair means also
>aadje anc tealbeatle. Believe me,
>their play is not as
>good as their provocating attacks
>which affront a lot of
>players on playchess. There was
>one response to Zormaster from
>US player John Findley (shurlock)like
>that: "You really are an
>idiot. How can you level
>such an accusation, if you
>haven't run the moves through
>the computer yourself? Maybe you
>are the cheater here, A
>thief is always the most
>suspicious of others." I have
>nothing to add !!

Zormaster is a real chess player, a human being. She gives her real idendity on her Playchess.de profile.

Her name is Pauline Van Nies.

24 games of hers are recorded on the famous chess data base www.chessgames.com : http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=95846

Here is her FIDE page : http://ratings.fide.com/tourarc.phtml?field1=1011944&codt=28

Her page on Wikipedia : http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_van_Nies

A video about her on You Tube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TlytkciD3g

If Pauline Van Nies suspects you of cheating, you shouild be able to prove your good faith and your good behaviour instead of insulting her.

In your profile, you do not give your real idendity. You kind of pretend to be another plyer... You do not give any information about your chess life "offline"...

Strange... With such a high PCR as 2400, anybody should be able to check your real level in chess on the Net...

Does Thomas know your real idendity ? Did he check your real level in chess ?

That is the question.

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18. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by onzedu on 10-Sep-08, 01:55 PM (GMT)
One more time: You believe anything (and somebody) without the smallest evidence. Have you read these dubously mails? Please, answer: Is it decent to insult anybody? YES or NO?

PS/ I had several problems with the "duch team". I recommend my first game with aadje to you. I doubt you accept this, i doubt it is easy to accept what you say about any players with only a suspicion.
PS: What is you identity, Mr A?

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22. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 03:01 PM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-08 AT 03:02 PM (GMT)

>I was accused by three dutch
>players who are not able
>to accept, when they are
>loosing a game. Zormaster attacked
>me by unfair means also
>aadje anc tealbeatle. Believe me,
>their play is not as
>good as their provocating attacks
>which affront a lot of
>players on playchess. There was
>one response to zormaster from
>US player John Findley (shurlock)like
>that: "You really are an
>idiot. How can you level
>such an accusation, if you
>haven't run the moves through
>the computer yourself? Maybe you
>are the cheater here, A
>thief is always the most
>suspicious of others." I have
>nothing to add !!

A dialogue between Pillsbury (alias ?????) and Banzayfish (Petra Schuurman, WIM)

Historique de la partie HCL-M1583-4

Pillsbury - BanzayFish (Petra Schuurman)

1. e4 c5 W: hi, greetings from germany, wiesbaden
B: Groeten uit Eindhoven, The Netherlands

2. Nf3 Nc6
3. d4 cxd4
4. Nxd4 Nf6
5. Nc3 e5 B: what is your chess history? Such a nice rating so i am curious )

6. Ndb5 d6 B: no chess history? Just engine play? pity

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27. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 25-Sep-08, 09:32 PM (GMT)
>I have the same opion as
>Charmaine has it !
>I was accused by three dutch
>players who are not able
>to accept, when they are
>loosing a game.

>Zormaster attacked me by unfair means

"ZorMaster" is Pauline Van Nies and is a Top Youth Player

I saw the comments she made in your common game.

She did not attack you.

She was only a bit surprised at your astounding PCR. And she was right !

Having such a high PCR as 2444 you should be able to justify a little bit of your "chess history", should not you ?

With PCR 2444 you should be a really good player in real life as a human being...

Petra Schuurman, WFM, also a Top Level Chess Player was surprised at your astounding PCR.

You gave them no information to those ladies and they were tempted to deduce that you play with the help of a computer...

With no idendity and no chess history, you should not be too surprised to be suspected to use a computer in a HCL-Tournament, which is strictly forbidden...

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19. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 01:57 PM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-08 AT 02:01 PM (GMT)

>About cheating I want to explain
>a very sensitive area:
> My opponent accuses me to cheat with insults.
>Everybody can suspect everybody: No one
>is perfect.

If you are suspected of cheating, and if you are innocent, then prove it !

>What I can't accept is: This
>is a pretext to insults.
>After insults there is no
>good way because the real
>matter changed. It's a way
>to shout his hate against
>the other ; it's a
>pretext. I confirmed this when
>I had read other mails
>from my opponents to others
>players.
>I'm not in Play chess for
>this .
>Now, I'm truly searching a correct
>answer:
> Asking the moderator?
>
> To resign and
>never see mor my opponent?
>What about the future tournament
>if I meet him?
> To take no
>notice: He is okay!
> To counterattack saying
>him he is an usual
>provocative player?
>
> No one seems good
>
>I'm waiting your opinions.

Hi Onzedu,

You asked for my opinion ; I am giving it to you...

First of all you don't have to feel "insulted" if somebody suspects you of using a computer...

If you are not a cheater, then it is very easy for you to prove it !

The best way to prove that you are not a cheater is to annotate your game played with your accuser...

Another way to prove your innocence is to get "certified" by Thomas ; it is very easy for Thomas to check your idendity and your chess records...

If you obtain a PCR 2400 on Playchess.de and Thomas is unable to find you registered anywhere in any OTB Tournament, then it will be difficult for him to certify you...

Some people pretend to be Bobby Fischer or Morphy hidden behind their screen... A computer might help them making illusion and daydream....

And one day, a "real life" champion brings them back to reality ; and they feel insulted !!!

I think that Thomas really has to do some cleaning in the M class of the Human Chess League...

I want to play against human beings, not against computers...

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20. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by onzedu on 10-Sep-08, 02:11 PM (GMT)
One more time: Please read the mails. You will see that the problem is TRUE INSULTS.

You don't answer the question because you don't read the question.......

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21. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 02:31 PM (GMT)
>One more time: Please read the
>mails. You will see that
>the problem is TRUE INSULTS.
>
>
>You don't answer the question because
>you don't read the question.......

What mails are you referring to ?

I saw your 1st game with aadje ; I saw that he suspected you of using Fritz...

I also saw a game between aadje and Teflon...

Aadje made following remark to Teflon

"You are nobody in chess world and you have a PCR 2400 on Playchess"

I would have made the same remark as aadje regarding Teflon..

What do you think of Teflon ???

This is THE real problem, I think...


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23. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by onzedu on 10-Sep-08, 04:09 PM (GMT)
Fat nose herr liar
I don't like liars very much

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24. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 04:46 PM (GMT)
>Fat nose herr liar
>I don't like liars very much
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

C'est une question de forme...

Le fond du problème est la triche dans les tournois HCL...

Les tricheurs comme Tefdlon mettent une mauvaise ambiance.

1. Régler le problème de la triche dans les tournois HCL

2. L'ambiance sera meilleure !


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25. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by maik42_ on 10-Sep-08, 05:33 PM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-08 AT 06:14 PM (GMT)

LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-08 AT 06:06 PM (GMT)

chessfriend gambitfan wanted me to say something about cheating in a other topic. So i will do here:
In the whole discussion there are some points for him (and others) to prove cheating. I took a player by "random" and work with these points. Here are my result:
"Random player" is gambitfan btw
1. Starting in HCl with low PCR and increase soon: gambitfan starts with about 1550....i dont know if he will increase
2. Playing many games: He has 13! running tournemants...thats much in my point of view and he makes a lot of annotions and comments in forum
3. No-cheaters can prove this in annotions: I took his annotion of HCl-T481 cause this was his last winning annotion. First 7 moves he describes well...they are out of database as he said by himself. Next moves only 1 was not the best as Fritz said (10..Re8). 7 other moves are first choice of Fritz, 1(9...0-0-0) was second choice. So he did play far above 90% of his moves like Fritz in this game..and didnt explain them in his annotion.
4. He said some good players are not known, no games are in the internet, they are not listed anywhere: I didnt find anything about him. i did only play 3 OTB-tournemants where i beat ELO rated player over 2100, these games are online. I did draw(simultan) a GM 2650 ELO, this was in newspaper...but where are gambitfans games??He said himself he palyed this game better than GM Anderson and noone ever heart of him???
So if i follow the argues he must be a cheater???

NO i dont think he is one!! He is a fanatic chessfriend and he has some not really good games as he told us in his annotions.
TO COME TO THE POINT: Yes, there is cheating on playchess. BUT its easy to accuse someone..as u see on the "random" player gambitfan, But u cannot prove it this way. I was accused 2 times and i sometimes offers the others to play me on fritzserver so they can see how strong or weak i am...no one dares. There i had a 2000 rating too btw.(without books its hard for me)
I think u should accept that here are very strong player like pitch, fjpv, dailos and goodknight where i wont ever have chance and wich are able to play 80-90% engine moves when they are deep in the game.
One remarkable thing is, that most of the good player are only in 1 tournemant. Others trying to play mostly against player wich are rated under 2000 (example maik42). :))
I am not sure if the discussion is making sense, but i think accusing in the style gambitfan did with teflon is not the right way...
I hope u dont take it offensiv chessfriend gambitfan, i did my random choice with a smile.....
Greetings and hounor of your annotions and games....average player Maik, who never could compare with GM ANderson
BTW u did asked if i cheat: Yes i do,cause i use many books and datbases for opening and mostly 2 big books from a guy called Awerbach for endgames..thats cheating, cause most player dont!

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26. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by gambitfan on 10-Sep-08, 08:33 PM (GMT)
LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-08 AT 08:40 PM (GMT)

LAST EDITED ON 10-Sep-08 AT 08:38 PM (GMT)

>chessfriend gambitfan wanted me to say
>something about cheating in a
>other topic. So i will
>do here:
>In the whole discussion there are
>some points for him (and
>others) to prove cheating. I
>took a player by "random"
>and work with these points.
>Here are my result:
>"Random player" is gambitfan btw
>
>1. Starting in HCl with low
>PCR and increase soon: gambitfan
>starts with about 1550....i dont
>know if he will increase

I registered in PLAYCHESS 3 years ago with PCR 1500 ; looking at my PCR curve is the curve of somebody who does not use a computer...

>2. Playing many games: He has
>13! running tournemants...thats much in
>my point of view

For the time being, I have 19 simultaneous games running ; among them 4 HCL M games

>and he makes a lot of
>annotions and comments in forum
>
>3. No-cheaters can prove this in
>annotions:

I said this one element ; another one - and the most efficient - is to be certified by the site owner Thomas...

> I took his annotion of HCl-T481 cause this was
>his last winning annotion. First
>7 moves he describes well...they
>are out of database as
>he said by himself. Next
>moves only 1 was not
>the best as Fritz said
>(10..Re8). 7 other moves are
>first choice of Fritz, 1(9...0-0-0)
>was second choice. So he
>did play far above 90%
>of his moves like Fritz
>in this game..and didnt explain
>them in his annotion.

>4. He said some good players are not known, no games are in the internet, they are not listed anywhere: I didnt find anything about him.

What you say is really stupid ; how can you search for me if you do not know my idendity ?

You do not know my idendity but Thomas does.

I took part in an OTB semi quick tournament 3 years ago in Nizza and my results are still there with an ELO equivalent to my PCR...

> i did only play 3 OTB-tournemants where i beat > ELO rated player over 2100, these
> games are online.

Did Thomas check this ?

> I did draw(simultan) a GM 2650 ELO,
> this was in newspaper...but where
> are gambitfans games??

Once again you are stupid...

How can you search for me if you do not know my name ?

> He said himself
> he palyed this game better
> than GM Anderson and none
> ever heart of him???

Not only are you stupid but you are a chess analphabet ;

Here is the game : http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1336289

Adolf Anderssen was a famous player contemporaneous to Morphy ; that game took place in 1852... ; there were no GMI at that time !

Karl Ernst Adolf Anderssen was born in Breslau on July 6th, 1818... He was one of the strongest players of his day and was even crowned unofficial World Champion after his victory in the 1851 London Tournament.

He is regarded as the quintessential Romantic, and his sacrificial brilliancies such as The Immortal Game (Anderssen vs Kieseritzky, 1851) and The Evergreen Game (Anderssen vs Dufresne, 1852) have stood the test of time.

You are anachronical!

Adolf Anderssen lost this game to Eichborn and 7... f6?? was an obvious blunder.

Louis Eichborn vs Adolf Anderssen

Casual 1852 · Ponziani Opening: Spanish Variation (C44) · 1-0

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. c3 d5
4. Bb5 dxe4
5. Bxc6+ bxc6
6. Nxe5 Qd5
7. f4

7... f6 ?? I played 7... exf3 e.p.
8. c4 Qd4
9. Qh5+ g6
10. Nxg6 hxg6
11. Qxh8 Be6
12. Qh7 O-O-O
13. Qxg6 Ne7 14. Qg3 Nf5 15. Qc3 Bxc4 16. b3 Bd3
17. Bb2 Bc5 18. Qxd4 Bxd4 19. Bxd4 Nxd4 20. Na3 Ne2 21. g3 Rh8
22. Kf2 Nd4 23. Rac1 f5 24. Ke3 Nf3 25. h4 Rg8 26. Rh3 c5
27. Kf2 Nxd2 28. Rxc5 Nf1 29. Nc4 Rd8 30. Rh1 Bxc4 31. Rxc4
Nd2 32. Rc2 1-0

> So if i follow the argues he must be a cheater???

What you say is really stupid ; if I were using a computer, I would have a PCR over 2200...

No computer plays PCR 1600 !!!

>NO i dont think he is
>one!! He is a fanatic
>chessfriend and he has some
>not really good games as
>he told us in his
>annotions.

> TO COME TO THE POINT: Yes, there is cheating on playchess.

>BUT its easy to accuse someone..as u see on the
>"random" player gambitfan, But u cannot prove >it this way.

What do you think of Teflon ?

If Teflon is able to reach a PCR 2400 ; there must be something registered about him on the Net...

I am not asking for his idendity because every player may want not to have their idendity public. But Thomas should know his idendity and be able to check whether Teflon uses a computer or not.

Quite many people have expressed their views about Teflon.

It has been assessed impossible to play so many games in so little time for somebody who is not a GMI.

>I was accused 2 times
>and i sometimes offers the
>others to play me on
>fritzserver so they can see
>how strong or weak i
>am...no one dares. There i
>had a 2000 rating too
>btw.(without books its hard for
>me)
>I think u should accept that
>here are very strong player
>like pitch, fjpv, dailos and
>goodknight where i wont ever
>have chance and wich are
>able to play 80-90% engine
>moves when they are deep
>in the game.

It should be very easy for Thomas to certify those players...

>One remarkable thing is, that most
>of the good player are
>only in 1 tournemant. Others
>trying to play mostly against
>player wich are rated under
>2000 (example maik42). :))
>
>I am not sure if the
>discussion is making sense, but
>i think accusing in the
>style gambitfan did with teflon
>is not the right way...
>
> I hope u dont take
>it offensiv chessfriend gambitfan, i
>did my random choice with
>a smile.....
>Greetings and hounor of your annotions
>and games....average player Maik, who
>never could compare with GM
>ANderson

Adolf Anderssen

>BTW u did asked if i cheat: Yes i do,cause i
>use many books and datbases for opening and
> mostly 2 big books from a guy called Awerbach > for endgames..thats cheating, cause most
> player dont!

Use of opening data bases and books is perfectly legal ;

I make great use of http://www.chessgames.com for the openings and also for the endgames...

I recently discovered http://chesslive.de

It has nothing to do with using a computer...

A computer calculates while a data base is history...

In the game annotated by me you mention ; the opening was uncommon (Ponziani Opening) ; and the only game given both by chessgames and chesslive.de after 7 f4 was the game lost by the great Adolf Anderssen (and not Anderson!)...

7... f6?? was an obvious blunder by Anderssen and it was not extraordinary to prefer the move 7... ef! e.p.

When I wrote that I "played better than the great Anderssen" (famous for the "Immortal" and the"Evergreen") it was true, but only local...

No reasonable chess player can ever suspect me of cheating just looking at my PCR and the quality of my annotations...

I was praised many times for the quality of my annotations and also of my "Private Notes", including both our Dutch female International Masters...

It is not the normal player's duty to judge whether a player cheats or not.

Concerning Teflon there are enough players here strongly suspecting him and his behaviour is very strange ; he does not answer properly... ; he is at least "dubious" and I can understand the reactions of high level Dutch players...

It is Thomas' duty to have a private conversation with Teflon in order to check his level...

I have nothing to prove regarding my level since my PCR is 1550...

But Teflon, having a PCR 2400 must be able to explain to Thomas how he was able to reach such a magnificent level !...

Thomas should "certify" all players above 2000 ; I think it is quite easy, looking et the game history, the presence on the Net, etc...

If he doesn't the HCL M class will gain a reputation of pack of cheaters...

When I see that "Human" Top Level players like Petra Schuurman and Pauline Van Nies have a PCR 2000 and Teflon a PCR 2400, I cannot refrain from being highgly suspicious...

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28. "RE: Did you ever feel cheated? Have you ever been accused of cheating?"
Posted by maik42_ on 28-Sep-08, 07:48 PM (GMT)
I did see that the annotion is hide since my post. And i wonder, so here it is:



Kommentar zu HCL-T481-3
Kommentiert von gambitfan
EMPTY

Weiß efimb
Schwarz gambitfan
Gespielt Partie endete mit August 2008
Eröffnung Ponziani Opening: Spanish Variation. Harrwitz Attack Nikitin

A miniature

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Links Partieseite für HCL-T481-3
Zugfolge

Andere Partienkommentare von gambitfan

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efimb - gambitfan
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h

3. c3 Ponziani Opening

3. ...

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h

3. ... d5! The most aggressive Black answer

4. Bb5 dxe4 5. Nxe5 Qd5 6. Bxc6+ bxc6

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h

7. f4 This position was reached in the game (Louis Eichborn, Adolf Anderssen, 1852). The great master played there : 7... f6?? and lost the game ! http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1336289

7. ...

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h

7. ... exf3! Obviously better than Anderssen's move !

8. Nxf3

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h

8. ... Ba6 This move pevents White from castling

9. d4 O-O-O 10. Ne5 Re8 11. Qg4+ Kb8 12. Kf2 Nf6 13. Qf3 Ne4+ 14. Ke3

8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h

14. ... Rxe5! A nice sacrifice!

15. dxe5 Bc5+ 16. Kf4 g5+ 17. Kf5 Bc8+


Ergebnis: 0 - 1

Schlußbemerkung:
This miniature was very interesting for me and very simulating ! I played better than the great master Adolf Anderssen 156 years ago !


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